Should you really try to die with zero?
The popular book “Die With Zero” argues that many people save too much money and miss opportunities to enjoy life along the way. Its philosophy encourages maximizing experiences, spending intentionally during different seasons of life, and giving wealth away earlier rather than leaving large inheritances.
But does that approach actually work for most retirees?
In this episode of Retire in Texas, Darryl Lyons reviews the bestselling book Die With Zero by Bill Perkins and walks through its nine core rules – including investing in experiences early, timing spending throughout life, giving while living, and knowing when to stop growing wealth.
Drawing from decades of working with retirees and families, Darryl shares where he agrees with the book’s ideas and where he believes the philosophy may create financial risks. He explains why experiences don’t have to be expensive, how today’s retirement landscape has changed, and why balancing enjoyment with long-term financial security remains critical.
You’ll learn:
• What the “memory dividend” concept means and how experiences shape long-term happiness.
• Why spending earlier in life can make sense – but also where it can become dangerous.
• How giving while living may create more impact than traditional inheritance planning.
• Why many Americans face a growing retirement risk despite messages encouraging more spending.
• The role purpose and meaningful work can play in long-term health and fulfillment.
This episode isn’t a rejection of enjoying life – it’s about balance, stewardship, and making financial decisions that support both present experiences and future security.
If you’d like help building a retirement strategy designed around your life stage and long-term priorities, visit PAXFinancialGroup.com and schedule a conversation with an advisor.
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Transcript:
Hey, this is Darryl Lyons, CEO and Co-Founder of PAX Financial Group, and you’re listening to Retire in Texas. This information is general in nature only. It’s not intended to provide specific investment, tax or legal advice. Visit PAXFinancialGroup.com for more information.
And so today I want to talk about Die with Zero. Die with Zero is a book by Bill Perkins. Getting all you can from your money and your life. I am going to digest this book with you in this brief amount of time that we have. At the end, I’m going to give you my critical opinion. First, let me say it’s a good book. I think Bill has done an incredible job of research, experience.
I think the way he articulates things are just awesome. I took two and a half pages of notes from the book. One of the things I do, I know it’s really nerdy, is I read books, and I’ve been doing this for decades now. I read a book, and I always put a little dot into the most salient points in the book.
And then I go back through the book and I summarize them on a word document, and then I store it, and sometimes I’ll reference those stored documents, maybe if I have a presentation or if I’m just thinking about something and I just want to, I need some content. It’s really good for me. So, I’ve enjoyed doing that over the years.
And so, I have two and a half pages of notes from Mr. Perkins’ book. Perkins was an energy trader, so I actually have a client and a friend who’s an energy trader. Trading, there’s different types of energy, right? You’ve got, oil, gas. So, I don’t know exactly what he was doing, but he was trading. And you buy one place and sell it to another and make money doing that.
Also, a hedge fund manager and Hollywood film producer, high stakes tournament poker player. And so, he is a very, very sharp guy. So really well built, really well-designed book. I mean, everything about it. I liked it. Again, I’m going to be a critic. And that’s, you know, I can do that.
Okay. And the reason I, the only reason I hesitate is because Bill’s not here to defend himself. That I guess that’s just the nature of writing a book. I’ve had plenty of people criticize me. So, I do want to say overall, it’s a good book. Let me digest the book through the lens that he wrote it.
And that’s through the nine rules of Die with Zero. He has the nine rules of Die with Zero. So, let’s start out with number one. Rule number one, according to Bill Perkins, is maximize your positive life experiences. Who’s really going to argue with maximizing your positive life experiences? Research has been clear here. It’s much better to invest in experiences than things.
It’s much better to invest in experiences than things. And so, the idea that he presents early in this chapter is something called consumption smoothing. And that means that you think about your life in these kinds of these frames, you know, your 20s or 30s and you’re, you know, 35 to 45. So, there’s these frames that really often are a function of your health, your energy levels.
And so your consumption should, of experiences, should be increased during certain years because of your ability to enjoy them well, and that life does not allow you to enjoy those things later. You know, the airline seats get more uncomfortable when you fly across the pond as you age. And so, he references something else that he uses throughout the book called a memory dividend.
And this is something that you get that lasts your entire life, that you get to reflect on, that you spent money on an experience, and then you get to enjoy those dividends the rest of your life. And I would agree without a doubt. In fact, I’ve always often said that movies are time machines. And so, when I go on road trips with my kids or anywhere else, I’m very intentional about putting certain types of music on when we’re enjoying a road trip, because I do know years later they’ll remember the road trip through that music.
So, if you want to be intentional about your memories, connect them to music. That’s me. That’s, Bill didn’t put that in there. But I always think of a memory dividend, investing experiences, investing in experiences, yield memory dividends for the rest of your life. These things are without a doubt true. Rule number two, start investing in experiences early.
Again, the suggestion is that these airline seats across the pond going to Europe or wherever, they’re just not as comfortable. And bathroom, as you know, it’s a little harder. Going to the bathroom. Bladder experiences are different. And so, start investing in experiences early. I don’t think anything, anyone has a problem with that. He pushes back against a culture that over emphasizes the virtues of an ant.
And again, I’m a Bible guy. So, I think about Proverbs. It says go like an art, thou sluggard, consider His ways and work hard, and America tends to have that ant type culture. Japan does. There are problems with it. There are pockets of problems with this ant type of culture, or just hard work to the extent of our bodies and our families and our memories.
And so, he addresses that. And he says, look, you need to start investing in experiences early in life and making sure that you get the maximum enjoyment of your experiences. You’re going to enjoy these experiences much more early than you will later. Rule number three, he said, aim to die with zero, which is again the book, Die with Zero, aim to die with zero.
And so, he mentions his grandmother, which I would suggest he probably had a greater impact on his thought process than he gives himself credit for, gives her credit for. And that’s you know, his grandmother gave him, like, a $50 sweater. She just wouldn’t spend any money. She wasn’t broke. She every couch and love seat was covered in plastic.
She was very, very frugal. And I bet you anything that kind of pinged him to develop this framework that he now has where he doesn’t want to maybe be as frugal and enjoy life. And so, when I see those things and you’ve listened to Retire in Texas enough. In my earlier episodes, I interviewed a lot of retirees and it’s amazing how their experiences as a youth, watching family members behave with money impacts how they do money right or wrong, or they go one direction or another, but it impacts them their entire lives.
And so, his grandmother’s reference, her being conservative with money, certainly had an impact on his approach to money. But Die with Zero basically says people save too much.
Rule number four, use all available tools to help you die with zero. So, he wants you to forecast your longevity. There’s a link in the book, but it’s called it’s longevityillustrator.org or livingto100.com. And I think that’s probably helpful. I actually use function health and it actually gives me the, you know, you have your real age and your biological age and so I thought about that, I was like, well, maybe you could not use your real age.
You could use your biological age. That might be interesting. He does recognize income annuities, which he talks about them, and he admits that he’s not an expert in that. With that disclosure, I do say income annuities. If you’ve read the book, the problem with income annuities is that with rates really low right now, it’s still relatively low.
They’re usually just not a great deal. So, I’m just cautious of them. But anyways, he mentions that in that particular section. Rule number five, give money to your children or to charity when it has the most impact. I got to love this. And Ron Blue, who I admire a lot in the Christian space. He says do your giving while you’re living.
And so Bill mentions that if you just leave it as an inheritance, you’re subject to the three R’s. And this is where I appreciate Bill’s language and creativity with articulate things. But the three R’s, if you give it as an inheritance, the three R’s are random amounts of money at random times to random people. And you say, well, they’re not random people, they’re my kids.
Well, that’s assuming that your kids survive or, you know, there’s, you know, all the divorce provisions are in place. There’s a lot of uncertainties if things aren’t constructed right. And so, if you want more certainty not subject to legal document, which you would hope would be enforceable. But if you want more certainty, do your giving while you’re living, which is, I think, a lot more enjoyable.
And I think it’s enjoyable for the charity to be able to, to be able to put that to good use. There was a story that he references in the book which I’ve heard before of a 96-year-old secretary who died with $8.2 million, and she left it all to charity. So, that’s an extreme case, one that I probably wouldn’t suggest to anybody, but there’s probably a story behind the story a little bit there.
Rule number six, don’t live your life on autopilot. And I think going back to those timelines that he talked about, like, okay, this period of time, I’m going to, you know, spend more money. This period of time, I’m going to save more money.
And just saying that, you know, that, you should be very intentional about when you’re going to spend money and it’s basically, money’s worthless at the end of your life. So, try to spend it now and just talked about how much people enjoy spending money in their 20s and lean into that. He actually goes on in one, and maybe he caveats it with some things, says you shouldn’t even save money in your early 20s.
Don’t even bother. That could present some habit problems when you’re in your 30s and you haven’t created some habits. So that’s my challenge with that. And I like when, you know, if he says don’t save in your 20s. My problem is, if you haven’t established a habit of saving 15% in your 20s, it becomes really challenging in your 30s to shift gears because you probably had lifestyle creep.
So that’s why I really like getting, you know, kids really early in the habits of saving a percentage of their income early and giving. Rule number seven, think of your life as distinct seasons. Again, reinforcing this. But he does lean into, not just the way you experience life, not just the way you spend money, but also the risks that you take.
So, I think that’s pretty healthy. He mentioned one informal survey with a medical provider and their patients saying that the patients, elderly patients mentioned that one regret in, in their lives was not having the courage to live the life that they truly wanted, and they ended up living a life that was just a life that they were told to live.
And so, you know, that’s pretty deep. And I think the main point is, is just think of life in seasons, make the most of it, make memories, have fun and spend a little money if you have to. Okay. Rule number eight, know when to stop growing wealth. And his contention is psychologically that no one will ever have enough.
And then every day that you work, you sacrifice a day of free time and enjoyment. So that’s that contention there. Rule number nine, and I alluded this earlier, but take the biggest risk when you have little to lose certainly make sense. I know I did it in my 20s and it’s just easier.
But you know, I still think that there’s some opportunities to take risks even when you’re older. I don’t think you disagree with that. But I think that that chapter on risk is, to me a lot of fun to unpack. Okay. So now my points of contention, four of them, first of all, experiences do not have to be expensive.
Experiences do not have to be expensive. This author, I think he might have spent up to $100,000 to bring Natalie Merchant, who I love. Natalie Merchant Carnival is an awesome song. Probably going to listen to the album for like an hour after the book because I haven’t listened to her in a while. But I bet he spent up to and again, maybe not 100,000, but tens of thousands to get Natalie Merchant to do a private party with him.
And he just loved that. Look, you don’t have to do that kind of stuff. I had a friend who was just adamant and taking her kids to Disney, and she was completely broke. She should not have done it. She owed a lot on her credit cards because there’s something about her that said, I need them to have these experiences.
By the way, my kids have never been to Disney and it’s I don’t feel like I’ve withheld anything from them in life. The other day I took a walk with my son, my 20 year old. He’s a grown man. And I said, let’s go for a little hike. And it was just a nice brisk walk. We went up to Canyon Lake and found these trails.
We walked for 45 minutes. We saw a really creepy guy, walking some pit bulls without a t shirt on. Walk back up the hill. There’s a lady coming down the hill. We told her, hey, look, you don’t need to be going down there, it’s kind of a weird looking guy. I say all that because my son and I just enjoyed a time together, and we made a memory, and there was zero money involved, so sometimes it’s just about being creative.
So, I just want to make sure, you know, experiences do not have to be expensive. And admittedly, this author said that he’s an honorary billionaire. This is his admission, he’s an honorary billionaire. He said he isn’t one, but he spends like one. So that says a lot. The second thing that I want to point out is, make no mistake, we are in a retirement crisis and people generally are retiring sooner.
And I don’t know if artificial intelligence is going to accelerate this. But as you get older, there is very much discrimination against old people, right or wrong. But businesspeople are looking for cheaper alternative labor. And so, there are a lot of people that are going to be forced into retirement sooner and you’re living longer. So, you’re talking about from 65 to 95, and then health care is more expensive and Social Security is questionable.
So, I do not think that we need to just be flip it about spending the money. I mean, there’s real risk of 30 years of life, not being of a quality standard that we need to take into consideration. So, in an extreme case, I would say the vast majority of people reading this book that’s mass produced are getting advice that hurts them, or at the very least encourages them to adopt certain behaviors that are problematic.
It’s like me writing a book on the benefits of Netflix and knowing that there’s a lot of people that binge on Netflix all the time and saying that it’s good for you. So, I think generally speaking, most people need to save. That’s what I’m saying. And so, I think this book had probably a lot of nuggets in this book are really good.
But for the mass audience of people that I know in the world, thousands of people I served, it could be a real problem. The third issue I would take, a third issue I would take contention with. I guess I said that, right. Is that he makes the implication that work is bad and that, you know, when you work, you’re losing opportunities and work is good.
We’ve talked about this a lot. Has purpose. It’s an important activity. It creates community. And for those that know my convictions and my faith, we were called to keep and cultivate a garden. And so, I’m not talking about the unhealthy work. I’m talking about work in general. I don’t have a problem with work. I appreciate work, and I think that we underestimate what it does for our health in certain contexts.
I’m not talking about working at, you know, the Department of Motor Vehicles every single day, you know, and having a boss that’s, you know, breathing down your neck and some horrible conditions. I’m talking about good work. Work is generally good. So that’s a point of contention I would wrestle with and the last one, I would say is that one of the purposes of here is, one of the primary motives is getting maximum enjoyment.
And so again, going back to my biblical worldview, that’s not the primary purpose of a Christian. The primary purpose of a Christian is not maximum enjoyment. That’s just not and enjoyment is a byproduct of our relationship with God is something that He gives us as a gift. And you accept it and enjoy it. And I’ll be the first to admit I move so fast.
I sometimes miss the flowers. I miss the bees, I get it, I work on it all the time. I know it’s a challenge for me. And so, a lot of that’s why a lot of the content resonate with the book as I, yeah, I need to relax. I need to just enjoy things. So I get that, I appreciate that.
But the purpose of life is not maximum enjoyment. That’s absolutely not. The pursuit of pleasure is our default. And that’s called the flesh, generally speaking. But so, I think our challenge that we all have is not the pursuit of personal pleasures. Our challenge is to live in the presence of our creator, in His will, and the byproduct of living in the presence of our creator and abiding in him.
The byproduct is not selfishness of a pursuit of pleasures, but selflessness. And so, I think that’s an important distinction. But that’s not, that shouldn’t surprise you, because Christians, in fact, should have a distinguishing worldview. And this book lays it out real well. That one worldview is the pursuit of experiences and pleasures and the other worldview. A Christian worldview is a pursuit of our creator and abiding in Him.
So, there’s the four points of contention, but overall, a good book. Enjoyed it. I would just say read it with those caveats, and I appreciate you hanging with me this time and again. You think different when you think long term. Have a great day.
Resource:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/0358567092/
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